When Can One Criticize China?
In China, all too often, criticizing any aspect of Chinese society or the government is taken as an affront to the entire country. On my blog I pretty much say whatever I want, but in my personal interactions I try to be a little more cautious. Nevertheless, it also strikes me as bizarre that talking about any areas where China can improve is taken as being China-bashing. This is strange to me because I love so much about the country and people, so it makes me cringe when I see foolish policies hurting China’s image or citizenry.
China, as a country, has made great strides over the years, and many of the recent Olympics-related policies are good. Although the smoking ban didn’t stick in restaurants, the plastic bags law has had a noticeable effect, and it is great to see police enforcing the drunk driving laws. These all constitute positive changes that the leadership should be commended for.
Yet the way the visa restrictions are being enforced is sheer stupidity. Why? Not only is this strangling the local economy (ask anyone doing business here), but it also gives newcomers the impression that modern China is Soviet in its draconian policies. Does this mean I hate China? Of course not. It means I think the government should be trying to encourage foreigners,particularly those who have never been here before, to see the modern and more open China that this country has become. It should not go back in time, but take a step forward, or at least maintain its recent level of openness.
And yet when I make these outlandish comments–that no tourists in the country might hurt the tourism industry–people, including some in the foreign community here, seem to believe this reflects my view that everything Chinese is bad. I came to China as an adult, learned the language, put up with the nonsense, and love living here very much. But that doesn’t mean that I love the fact that the Beijing skies tend to be black (they are beautiful blue today), or that the PSB asks me to re-register when they can’t explain what the problem the first time was, or that the government blocks dangerous websites like Andrew Sullivan’s blog.
The backlash and sensitivity to any criticism reminds me of the Bush administration. Dubya’s folks dismiss critics who disagree with their ideas, no matter how obvious the conclusions are. They have done this in recent memory on the economy and the war planning to disastrous effect. The key is not to attack the messenger, it is to figure out if the message has any validity and adjust accordingly.
The biggest measure of strength is the ability to receive criticism and not cower in fear. Strong countries and leaders can accept that people may believe problems exist and counteract those claims through discussion and policy–making adjustments as necessary.
China is much stronger than it realizes, and it is much better equipped to absorb criticism than it now does. As this becomes clear, hopefully China, and its foreign defenders, will begin to accept thoughtful criticism as what it is: an effort to continue to improve a great country.
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mor responds:
Posted: July 6th, 2008 at 7:53 pm →
The answer is: you can’t.
If you haven’t been to China at all or only spent a short time (less than a century) in the country, it means that you don’t know enough about China to really understand it and therefore you are in no position to discuss China’s problems or say anything which could be interpreted as criticism.
If you happen to be one of those really old Old China Hands who have spent more time in the Middle Kingdom than in their native countries, then you can’t seriously say anything slightly negative or critical about China either, because your decision to live here clearly shows that you not only regard this country as the best in the world, but also as 100 % perfect in every respect you can possibly imagine. Otherwise, if there should be anything you don’t like so much, get the hell out!
If you happen to be Chinese, somebody who was born in China and still lives in China and has every right to call this country home, and you want to criticize China - well, ask Hu Jia, Chen Guangcheng and all the others about it!
So, when can one criticize China? Never!
If you have something positive to say, though, like: “China is the greatest country in the world, because it’s got 5000 years of history and they serve my favorite dish Gongbaojiding in almost every second restaurant”, then your opinion will be very much appreciated, even if you’ve never even come within 2000 miles of China’s borders.
When is it OK to criticise China? | rice again responds:
Posted: July 6th, 2008 at 9:05 pm →
[...] As Josh points out criticism by foreigners is more often seen as an attack on China and Chinese people in large and though criticism of policies and leaders is becoming more common, the fact remains that blood is still the key determinant to how this criticism is received. [...]
Bill responds:
Posted: July 6th, 2008 at 10:01 pm →
Yes, blood is the key determinant. If you are a foreigner, you just don’t understand China. If a Chinese criticize China, than you are a traitor, and deserve to die. Blood determines your fate after committing such serious crime.
revi responds:
Posted: July 7th, 2008 at 12:44 am →
Actually, its not so much what you say, but HOW you say it and therein lie the cultural and political divide.
Glen responds:
Posted: July 7th, 2008 at 6:59 am →
Yeah, I was talking to a Chinese person the other day how Westerners often get caught in the middle when controversial issues come up (TEA-bet, etc.) and we often see both sides of the issue because we talk to Chinese people but we also absorb the Western press and hear from our loved ones back home. I was told point-blank by a Chinese guy: “Just avoid talking about any of those topics.”
Ooh-kay….
Pete MaGovern responds:
Posted: July 7th, 2008 at 7:09 pm →
So Josh, exactly WHAT do you personally know about China so much that YOU seem to have a divine right to think what YOU say is always right? It’s arrogant, presumptious and pathetic that a young white American guy can spout off about the Olympics being botched before they’ve even fucking opened. Botched off for YOU maybe. But NOT for China. People like you are all coming out of the woodwork like cockroaches. You should go get a serious change of scenery, or at least WAIT until the Olympics are underway before mouthing off like some spoilt brat. You know jack shit, and your site is getting repetitive: China = Always screwing up; Obama = Good. Go find a new instrument to play you’re as boring as watching paint dry on the new American Embassy building.
Namk responds:
Posted: July 7th, 2008 at 7:46 pm →
Hi Josh, I usually enjoy yourtt blog posts and have ben following them awhile, but you will always have problems when you write and comment on matters that have a political bias. Your site since it started has been political. Its OK to comment, but if you are going to do so you are going to get some flak. Your travel writing before was good, maybe you miss a wise hand to reign in your more rabid commentaries about China? You are now becoming repetitive. Thats not wjhat you’ll want to hear, but it is true. Most of the China blogs these days are biased and personally opinionated, yours now also. So what are go going to do to pull it out of the China and expat bashing mire that is the lot of most of the other blogs? Its your blog, after all, and its your problem.
Bobby responds:
Posted: July 7th, 2008 at 8:53 pm →
50 dollars says “Pete Magovern” and “Namk” are the same “old China hand.” Josh- can you check the IP address to see if it matches?
Neddy responds:
Posted: July 7th, 2008 at 10:55 pm →
revi,
you have good point. But the observed reality is, much too often, that it is WHAT you say that determines whether you are seen as a friend or foe, and the cultural divide issue is only a ploy to deflect your critique. Have seen this trick used so many times…
Glen,
Very good. It’s the old question of “How do we get along with each other?” The answer of SOME Chinese (and their apologists) is “You get along with me!”
Pete MaGovern,
I am not Josh’s personal friend, but I have followed his blogging for a while, and so have other people I know and trust. It’s not about whether I agree with his every word. It’s that I find him a fair-minded, straight-thinking and balanced writer. You have not made a single attempt to debate what he said. It is you who is “arrogant, presumptious and pathetic”, and a “fucking” twat to boot. You do not “know jack shit” what you are talking about, and spout invective because there is nothing else you have to contribute. So crawl back under your stone, like a cockroach you are. Or go and lick a panda. You are boring.
Namk,
The only problem here is in your alleged mind. So you think that avoiding the issues, and “not rocking the boat” is the answer to a problem? The glorious “harmonious society” thing, where “harmony = you agree with me, or shut up!” applies. Repetitive, too.
For everyone’s enjoyment:
http://mylaowai.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/a-definite-pattern/
revi responds:
Posted: July 8th, 2008 at 12:36 am →
@Neddy
Hmmm, maybe, maybe not. I’ve never had any problems discussing “sensitive” issues with my Chinese colleagues and friends and it often depends on the context and the physical setting in which the question is raised. I find that its usually best to discuss such issue in the privacy of one’s home or in a private function room rather than in a very public place, just to be mindful that you don’t get anybody in trouble, either with the Gong An or even passerbys, or offend others in the next table. You can either say that its a lack of free speech or simply the application of good manners and considerations.
As for raising sensitive issues, whether political issues or work related, I usually start off by asking the Chinese what THEY think first before coming on hard and mouthing myself off from the word go. If you do the latter first they will either clam up or tell you to f*ck off. And if they clam up, it usually means that they are really pissed off and good luck with getting co-operation from them next time you need it.
Asking them what they think first is also a way of establishing trust and respect, for you are a guest after all, and then you’ll see how quickly they’ll open up and if you commiserate with them it’ll come to point that you can’t shut them up. Then you’ll really know what they really think, especially after a few beers. So you can either say that its cultural and approach it that way and get some results, however small or slowly at first, or you can just dismiss it as excuses and deflections and end up with nothing. Its your choice.
Lindel responds:
Posted: July 8th, 2008 at 1:56 am →
Before criticising “China” one must first become fully accepting of the superiority of the Wade-Giles romanization system. Then after successful defense of your master’s thesis regarding provincial variance in income of salt merchants during the early qing dynasty. Then and only then may one ask pointed questions contrary to conventional wisdom. As long as it is done politely, in writing, in advance with approval from the Dean.
Lindel responds:
Posted: July 8th, 2008 at 2:15 am →
I have been studying chinese language since august 2001 in “the states”. All my teachers have been native speakers from mainland China with the lone exception of 1 from Taiwan. Most of my teachers have been in their 40s or early 50s, most have advanced degrees. In most classes at some point the Communists or Chairman Mao have been mentioned. There was never any mean spirited statements made, usually what I would consider healthy natural criticisms of Mao or the CCP, etc. One mainland teacher in particular preferred talking about the corruption and incompetence of the CCP more than actually teaching chinese. My point being that prior to March 2008 it was never a big deal to talk about chinese politics or to be critical of the chinese government with my teachers from the mainland. But since the riots in Tibet and the Torch Relay issues, there has been a noticable tightening of the jaw and a discernable “us” vs “them” atmosphere. It is no longer as comfortable to say anything negative about china, even with a mainland chinese person who prior to march 2008 used every topic to launch a diatribe against the CCP or some negative aspect of chinese culture.
Also the almost universal reaction of Chinese regarding Tibet has made talking about politics or economics a sensitive issue, often met with cold stare or an argument. I have not become anti-chinese since march 2008. Never discussed Tibet before that with anyone from china. Also knew Tibet to be as much a part of China as Khazakstan is a part of the Russian Federation. Still not advocating “splittism”, but see the issues in Tibet being the same as those in Weng’an except with an added dimension of racism (both ways, with one race on the bottom).
Josh responds:
Posted: July 8th, 2008 at 7:04 am →
@ Neddy, Namk, Bobby and Pete,
Can we please avoid the personal attacks..especially on me! Seriously, I don’t really care if people attack me, but let’s not have this discussion devolve too far.
Neddy responds:
Posted: July 9th, 2008 at 12:50 am →
I hear you, Josh, and I don’t wish to get banned on a good blog. But one name was conspicuously missing in your list…
revi, thanks for responding. My “observed reality” quip really meant “in my own experience”. This experience refers mostly to what’s going on the web. In person-to-person situations, I am with you, absolutely. Never had any problems there, and especially not with the elder generation. Now some of the twenty-something crowd are a different kettle of fish, but that’s a story which belongs to another thread.
revi responds:
Posted: July 9th, 2008 at 3:05 am →
@Neddy
The twenty-something crowd are ALWAYS a different kettle of fish no matter what culture or society, thats their nature for better or worse.
Josh responds:
Posted: July 9th, 2008 at 6:56 am →
@ Neddy
I don’t ban people, and I wasn’t trying to single you out.
nanheyangrouchuan responds:
Posted: July 10th, 2008 at 2:35 am →
When can one criticize China? When exhaling, as that is the mechanism that powers your vocal chords.
Hugh Davids responds:
Posted: July 13th, 2008 at 5:40 pm →
There has been a lot of China bashing going on. Funny how those who do it are immediately up in arms about any criticism directed at them instead when it heads their way. The expatriate critics hate to be criticised. Facists.
Bobby responds:
Posted: July 14th, 2008 at 8:02 am →
Hugh- To whom/what are you referring? Could you be any more vague and cryptic?
Ermre D'Silva responds:
Posted: July 15th, 2008 at 5:34 pm →
I work in journalism in HK and I have to tell you your basic China blogs have a very poor reputation here. There is very little original commentary, mostly just hot aired twaddle and amateur pontificating. I would also concur with the observation that most of the blogs have had an anto-China bias towards the Olympics, including this one. Josh is obviously an intelligent guy, however his work and observations on matters of China leave me to believe he is somewhat confused when it comes to the nature of China. One suspects he’s a late student or an English teacher, rather than anyone of particular professional standing. That said, he at least permits such commentary on his site. Others are rather more aggressive when it comes to having their self-important precious views challenged online. Blogging is, after all, the lowest form of journalism, and thankfully is largely ignored. If Josh and his ilk want to make a career out of this I’d suggest they get a degree in journalism and learn about real reporting, journalistic research and keeping personal views out of a good story.
Bobby responds:
Posted: July 15th, 2008 at 11:07 pm →
Dear “Emre”
Stop being a troll and hiding under pseudonyms. It seems quite obvious that you and Pete and Hugh are all the same person. It’s all quite sad.
I am a professional banker from a reputable organisation somewhere. I suggest if you have an interest in being successful like I am, a successful banker from an unnamed corporation, perhaps you should get an MBA degree. You know I am successful and important, because I keep telling people so.
It’s pathetic to see an accomplished journalist like you, who of course doesn’t register on google, even though you surely exist, troll the internet picking fights. Go back into your hole.
Ermre D'Silva responds:
Posted: July 16th, 2008 at 12:18 pm →
Comments confirming my theory that blogging is indeed the lowest form of journalism. Nothing but insults and provacation.
Bobby responds:
Posted: July 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm →
“Ermre”
Which paper do you work for again? You’re based in Beijing right? Or is it supposed to be Hong Kong?
And what value did your trolling add to the dialogue? I’m confused. In your original comment you fail to even mention any substance of anything that anyone said. I look forward to reading your high-level journalism soon.