Real Goons or Thugs!
After the outrage over the “goons and thugs” comments, the events in Seoul during the torch relay were just sad and depressing. Mobs attacked South Koreas and Tibetans with opposing viewpoints. These groups of people, hopefully small and unrepresentative of Chinese youth, were without question, goons and thugs. Hopefully all Chinese will be ashamed of these reprehensible actions, but I suspect some will be proud:
When lone protesters demanded that China stop repatriating North Korean refugees, they were quickly surrounded by jeering Chinese. Near the park, Chinese students surrounded and beat a small group of protesters, news reports said.
In another scuffle, at the city center where the five-hour torch run ended, Chinese surrounded several Tibetans and South Korean supporters who unfurled pro-Tibet banners, and kicked and punched them, witnesses said.
The largest scuffle erupted shortly after the first torch-bearer left the Olympic Park, surrounded by dozens of police officers on foot or on bicycles and hundreds more in buses and trailed by a water cannon, ambulances and helicopters circling overhead.
If Chinese are looking for an unadulterated outpouring of love, they will soon get it. The torch goes to Pyongyang next. Hopefully that’s not the kind of positive reinforcement Chinese are looking for, but it’ll be interesting to see the coverage of the North Korean stop (no protests!!).
Update: Here are more articles to look over and help you make your own decisions: BBC, Chicago Tribune, Chosunilbo and ESPN. Incidentally, Renmin Ribao ran a (short) article on the torch run in North Korea…but not South Korea.
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thug responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 8:52 am →
“report said”, “witness said”. So the writer never saw it himself?
How about show us a picture or a video clip? With so many police around, I am sure the “thugs” would have been arrested? Were there any arrests?
“report” and “witness” also said more than 140 “peaceful protesters” were killed by the evil CCP in Tibet.
Josh responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 9:28 am →
i encourage you to read the whole article. There is also a picture of a Chinese youth jump-kicking someone on the BBC website and it appears another Chiense protester was holder the man being kicked.
Again, I assume this in no way reflects the sentiment of the overall Chinese population.
Monica responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 9:35 am →
I am afraid much more will happen during Olympics.
Larry responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 10:56 am →
So the Lord Mayor of London was right after all.
Rhys responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 12:55 pm →
thug
Including “report said” and “witness said,” is respsonsible journalism.
theotherrichard responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 2:09 pm →
(h)China(h)
hehe responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 5:12 pm →
Josh,
My hat off for your undeterred faith in BBC. You should talk to Mr James Reynolds. He can tell you a lot more “news report” and his personal “witness accounts”. Keep going.
Zhang Ying Jia responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 5:43 pm →
Josh you should read this thread about how China stacks up in media reporting compared with other communist countries: http://www.communisttaxlawyer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=148
Nick responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 6:05 pm →
Is it so hard to believe that an angry nationalistic mob became violent? Chinese or Tibetan. You can’t just knock the media reports.
@Thug “How about show us a picture or a video clip?” - didn’t you learn anything from anti-cnn?
Chuck responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 10:49 pm →
Regarding the picture on BBC of the guy “jumpkicking” the protester. Another example of the western media’s distortion. They cropped the picture to exclude the skateboard under the chinese kid’s feet. He was doing an “ollie” folks, thats all.
thug responds:
Posted: April 28th, 2008 at 11:48 pm →
There are quite a few photos of this incident around. After reviewing these photos, here are my questions:
1. The “victim” is alone. He doesn’t look like a protester. Where is his sign or flag?
2. Do you bring your bike with you when you go to a protest?
3. If he is not a protester, why did the “thugs” attack him?
4. Why didn’t the policemen (just two yards away) look concerned?
5. The 2 (3?) “thugs” are apparently stupid. They are beating a man right in front of 20 policemen? Why are they not with the rest of the Chinese students on the other side of the police line?
6. The timing of the photo is so perfect.
With the PR war that is going on, this is the kind of story the other side desperately needs. I wouldn’t take these photos at their face value, especially after CNN doctored their photos.
stuart responds:
Posted: April 29th, 2008 at 12:46 am →
There were similar incidents of intimidation and violence by overseas Chinese in Tokyo and Canberra, too.
Certainly these incidents were not instigated by the majority, but neither were they carried out by lone individuals. With reference to the Paris torch scuffle and the ‘Death to France’ campaign that followed, these attacks were far worse. CCTV; where were you this time?
Rhys responds:
Posted: April 29th, 2008 at 3:11 pm →
thug
I concur that asking hard questions of media is good. Do you ask similarly hard questions of Chinese media?
Scott responds:
Posted: April 29th, 2008 at 4:30 pm →
@Chuck, that was great! I wish I would have thought of that first.
Time to just get the torches to China and forget all the ego.
Charlie responds:
Posted: April 29th, 2008 at 9:53 pm →
I’m really enjoying the torch relay fights - a lot more entertaining than the actual Olympics is likely to be. I mean, who wants to watch fat men throwing lead weights a few yards? Give me 300 crazy Chinese students trying to pulverise some North Korean refugees in a hotel doorway anytime.
I am so looking forward to the Hong Kong torch relay this Friday. The last chance for Chinese patriots to rough up some gweilos. Bring it on!
Wiggin responds:
Posted: April 30th, 2008 at 12:19 pm →
@Thug and others: I do think that in this day and age photos and videos are extremely helpful in establishing the veracity of such emotional claims. After extensive research on the Tibet riots and the police reaction, for example, I decided that the CCP was in fact admirably restrained. We didn’t see anything like the kinds of pictures we got from Burma, where the police really did go around killing protestors and some really disgusting things happened. In fact, we saw mostly Tibetans doing terrible things (reminiscent, in my mind, of the 1992 Rodney King riots in LA). Leaving aside the question of why the Tibetans felt like rioting in the first place, I must report that the violence from Chinese protestors in Korea is very well documented.
Case in point: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmhqY7N46Y). I got this from 连岳’s blog (http://www.bullog.cn/blogs/lianyue/archives/131911.aspx), where other still pictures can also be found.
nanheyangrouchuan responds:
Posted: April 30th, 2008 at 2:59 pm →
Now everyone knows the true nature of Mordor, also known as China!
Chinese students aren’t capable of fighting one on one, they are just scrawny little fag boys who gang up on people and Chinese students think that they are the only ones who have the right of free speech.
These little emperors are typically bad employees who can only memorize lots of useless facts.
Free speech does not include freedom to attack.
China is a dirty pig fucking nation that must be burned to the ground!
Worst of all, the Chinese embassies around the world organized these mass gatherings of “shit youth”. The world could easily solve its “China problem” by throwing out Chinese consulates, embassies, students and razing Chinatowns.
Lu responds:
Posted: April 30th, 2008 at 5:44 pm →
Thug asked questions, some I can answer.
2. Do you bring your bike with you when you go to a protest?
Depends. I’d take a bus, the metro, a bike, by foot. A bike is a very convenient mode of transport, also to protests.
6. The timing of the photo is so perfect.
The photo journalists I’ve seen don’t take one picture, they take dozens in quick succession. I bet that apart from this picture, the photographer has a whole series showing the kicker standing, the kicker bending his knees, starting to jump, bending his leg, then this picture, then the kicker landing again, standing up straight, and perhaps walking off. Obviously, all those didn’t make the paper, as this one was the best one.
If you don’t believe it’s possible to take such a picture: there’s a similar one, taken years ago, of then trainer of one of the other Dutch soccer team Louis van Gaal making a similar kick (in the air). Great picture.
thug responds:
Posted: April 30th, 2008 at 11:39 pm →
http://img4.tianya.cn/photo/2008/4/30/7765432_9869694.jpg
http://img15.tianya.cn/photo/2008/4/30/7771111_16181472.jpg
thug responds:
Posted: May 1st, 2008 at 4:22 am →
A picture is worth a thousand words? Well, not quite.
Sometimes you need to look at a few more in order to get the whole picture…
http://cache.tianya.cn/publicforum/content/worldlook/1/177131.shtml
Janus responds:
Posted: May 1st, 2008 at 10:26 am →
Thug, are you actually, seriously doubting that Chinese protestors mobbed Koreans, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary? My god…
Janus responds:
Posted: May 1st, 2008 at 10:27 am →
2+2=5!
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
WAR IS PEACE
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
OCEANIA HAS ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH EASTASIA
nanheyangrouchuan responds:
Posted: May 1st, 2008 at 2:27 pm →
The Chinese point of view is no longer worth considering.
another thug responds:
Posted: May 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 pm →
@nanheyangrouchuan
as if you have ever consider views differ to yours .. but who gives a shit what u think anyway
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/200805a.brief.htm#004
nanheyangrouchuan responds:
Posted: May 4th, 2008 at 6:51 am →
The views of the Chinese who are brainwashed from birth by the CCPee are all about ruling the world and revenge for supposedly being looked down upon.
another thug responds:
Posted: May 8th, 2008 at 9:43 pm →
WTF … your 2 cents are as always worth only 2 cents