Comments on: Put Your Guests in the Hallway http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html This is China Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:48:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: mike http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-905 mike Mon, 17 Mar 2008 05:38:14 +0000 http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-905 McG is right that this happens in NYC too. Not sure the origin. See blogger Josh Marshall's account of trying to get real estate space in Manhattan: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/152538.php. By the way, words borrowed (crisis, formula, cactus, kibbutz) often keep their foreign plurals (crises, formulae, cacti, and kibbutzim). But borrowed words just as often do not. How often do you, following the Italian rule, order one pepperoni pizza and two cheese pizze? Or when talking about Rome, following the Latin, say that the masses lived on bread and circus? Or that, following German, that in China it's easy to get jobs at English kindergärten? Of course we say pizzas, circuses, and kindergartens. These are examples of dictionary-recognized loan words, but at one point they were just ordinary foreign words used in everyday speech. I would suggest that when speaking English, using English grammar--even imposing it on foreign words just introduced to the language--is fine. English doesn't have an academy. The dictionaries follow usage. So if English speakers are using a word in a certain way, it's correct. If I was in Beiing, I would suggest that we talk it out with a big group. I hear that there is much Hutong, and many streets of Hutong have nice places to get a few pizze. McG is right that this happens in NYC too. Not sure the origin. See blogger Josh Marshall’s account of trying to get real estate space in Manhattan: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/152538.php.

By the way, words borrowed (crisis, formula, cactus, kibbutz) often keep their foreign plurals (crises, formulae, cacti, and kibbutzim). But borrowed words just as often do not. How often do you, following the Italian rule, order one pepperoni pizza and two cheese pizze? Or when talking about Rome, following the Latin, say that the masses lived on bread and circus? Or that, following German, that in China it’s easy to get jobs at English kindergärten? Of course we say pizzas, circuses, and kindergartens.

These are examples of dictionary-recognized loan words, but at one point they were just ordinary foreign words used in everyday speech. I would suggest that when speaking English, using English grammar–even imposing it on foreign words just introduced to the language–is fine. English doesn’t have an academy. The dictionaries follow usage. So if English speakers are using a word in a certain way, it’s correct.

If I was in Beiing, I would suggest that we talk it out with a big group. I hear that there is much Hutong, and many streets of Hutong have nice places to get a few pizze.

]]> By: Josh http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-884 Josh Thu, 13 Mar 2008 04:43:52 +0000 http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-884 I acknowledge your point but reject it out of hand for two reasons: 1. hutong is not an English word, even if foreigners (in China) use it as such 2. we don't say "datums," we say "data" I acknowledge your point but reject it out of hand for two reasons:

1. hutong is not an English word, even if foreigners (in China) use it as such
2. we don’t say “datums,” we say “data”

]]> By: Turtlewind http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-883 Turtlewind Thu, 13 Mar 2008 04:13:05 +0000 http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-883 I'm going to completely ignore the main point of your post and try to out-pedant your pedantry. It's perfectly fine to pluralise "Hutong" to "hutongs" because it is not a Chinese word. "胡同" is a Chinese word, but "hutong" is an English word whose origin is the Chinese word "胡同". Almost all English words come from one foreign language or other, and if you insist on always applying the gramatical rules of the source language for every word you find, you'll never be able to say anything. I’m going to completely ignore the main point of your post and try to out-pedant your pedantry. It’s perfectly fine to pluralise “Hutong” to “hutongs” because it is not a Chinese word. “胡同” is a Chinese word, but “hutong” is an English word whose origin is the Chinese word “胡同”. Almost all English words come from one foreign language or other, and if you insist on always applying the gramatical rules of the source language for every word you find, you’ll never be able to say anything.

]]> By: Chris Devonshire-Ellis http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-865 Chris Devonshire-Ellis Wed, 12 Mar 2008 05:35:54 +0000 http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-865 It's common practice throughout Asia and has been for decades. It's nothing new, and was largely the cursed invention of Hong Kong based property developers. However - you do want to watch out for unscrupulous landlords who inflate the size of the common area to get more rent out of you. The common area rental you are charged should measurable by the actual size divided by the actual number of tenants using it. So for example, if your floor has four apartments on it, the common area for the immediate landing space should be divisible by four, and you pay that. For areas such as ground floor communal lobbies, by the entire number of apartments, and so on. Pain in the arse, but nothing really to do with greedy Chinese communists. It’s common practice throughout Asia and has been for decades. It’s nothing new, and was largely the cursed invention of Hong Kong based property developers. However - you do want to watch out for unscrupulous landlords who inflate the size of the common area to get more rent out of you. The common area rental you are charged should measurable by the actual size divided by the actual number of tenants using it. So for example, if your floor has four apartments on it, the common area for the immediate landing space should be divisible by four, and you pay that. For areas such as ground floor communal lobbies, by the entire number of apartments, and so on. Pain in the arse, but nothing really to do with greedy Chinese communists.

]]> By: McG http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-861 McG Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:15:22 +0000 http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-861 Real estate square footage in NYC is often calculated with a pro-rated share of the common areas. Real estate square footage in NYC is often calculated with a pro-rated share of the common areas.

]]> By: John Guise http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-860 John Guise Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:16:01 +0000 http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-860 Yes I heard before that this is a common practice. I knew that apartment layouts include the hallway space directly outside your door but not the lobby. That's nuts. J. Yes I heard before that this is a common practice. I knew that apartment layouts include the hallway space directly outside your door but not the lobby. That’s nuts.

J.

]]> By: Larry http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-858 Larry Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:47:06 +0000 http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-858 I think the Chinese Communists are trying to demonstrate what Karl Marx said about capitalism and capitalists to prove that Karl is right on the money. But you must look at the brighter side. You can have your in-laws visiting and stay thousands of miles away. I think the Chinese Communists are trying to demonstrate what Karl Marx said about capitalism and capitalists to prove that Karl is right on the money.

But you must look at the brighter side. You can have your in-laws visiting and stay thousands of miles away.

]]> By: nichtich http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-856 nichtich Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:13:09 +0000 http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-856 There's two ways of calculating the space: construction way or living way. Apartments are sold in construction way. That includes hallway, elevator room, and many other things. Why? Because nothing is free. You shouldn't punish buildings with adequate public spaces. Why would they build it if they can't charge for it? There’s two ways of calculating the space: construction way or living way. Apartments are sold in construction way. That includes hallway, elevator room, and many other things. Why? Because nothing is free. You shouldn’t punish buildings with adequate public spaces. Why would they build it if they can’t charge for it?

]]> By: Pappi http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-855 Pappi Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:08:54 +0000 http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-855 The Communist Party is the master capitalist. The Communist Party is the master capitalist.

]]> By: dezza http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-854 dezza Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:58:44 +0000 http://cupofcha.com/2008/03/10/put-your-guests-in-the-hallway.html#comment-854 flat measurements are calculated the same way here in HK. so it's not only a mainland Chinese phenomenon. i wonder if things are like this in taiwan as well? this is all within the law so it smacks of government-business collusion. flat measurements are calculated the same way here in HK. so it’s not only a mainland Chinese phenomenon. i wonder if things are like this in taiwan as well?

this is all within the law so it smacks of government-business collusion.

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