Why Are China’s Laobaixing So Mad?
The common man in China, laobaixing, seems really mad, and it’s left me wondering why. In the last week I have seen two fist fights break out of the same subway station at 8:50 AM. The first one left one man severely bloodied, while the second led to an arrest.
This is anecdotal evidence, but I think there is something more to it. There is a bully mentality that is pervasive in modern China, and it manifests itself in some very unpleasant ways. There seems to be a lot of pent up anger, even though people’s lives are ostensibly so much better than a generation ago.
Six years ago when I was living out in Chengdu I saw a particularly nasty and vicious fight. It happened while I was playing basketball on the university’s outdoor courts with some of my students. As we were playing I heard a cheer go up and people rushing to the far corner court. As I wonder over I could see that four boys were beating up another who was lying helpless on the ground, as a huge crowd watched and did nothing. Even after it was clear that he could not fight back, they kicked his huddled heap on the ground. Blood poured on the court as I helplessly watched.
I was a teacher, and supposedly in a position of authority, but as a foreigner in an inland province, I knew I had to be careful. There is a mob mentality in China, and if people decided the outsider was getting involved in something that didn’t concern him, it was difficult to know how the crowd–which had swelled to several hundred–might react. I walked away disgusted and ashamed.
Shortly after the incident I saw something even more pathetic. As I walked down a back street in Chengdu a man in his late 30s or early 40s was yelling loudly, swearing frequently. The crowd had already formed, and as I pushed my way up to the front, I realized the objects of his wrath were two elderly women with cigarette carts. It wasn’t clear what had stirred his rage, but he kept pushing one of the carts as the women struggled to hold on to it. Finally he flipped it over spilling the contents across the ground. And as he went after the second, he pushed one of the women hard, knocked her down.
The scene seemed particularly shocking to me since people cannot stop telling me how much Chinese defer to their elders, yet no one was even trying to reason with the man. If the scene at the school had the potential to turn ugly for me, this would have been far riskier for me to involve myself. On the courts several of my students were around, and it was fairly clear I was a teacher. It is reasonable to think that people would have been somewhat reluctant to turn on me. However, this time I was on my own, with the laobaixing. These were common men, and I knew that in Sichuan that meant conservative people who might harbor resentment to foreigners. It was less than three years after the US bombed the Chinese Embassy, and I had heard from friends about how quickly situations could turn if national pride entered the equation. This was the land of the common man, and I was anything but.
You often hear about what loabaixing think or do, as if they are some sort of homogeneous group. People tend to translate laibaixing to mean ‘old hundred names,’ but I always think of it as ‘hundred common names.’ Lao is literally ‘old,’ but often implies frequency or banality. Traditionally there were only 100 surnames that Chinese could have (although that’s greatly expanded), and I think the idea of the average man is better reflected the way I think about the phrase.
The common man in China is surprisingly mad, and I don’t know why. The stories that I told were only four, but I’ve seen similar, if less violent, situations frequently. People here are brave in numbers, and there is rarely honor in taking the high road. In Sichuan locals would tell me that the people in the province had hot tempers that matched the cuisine. At the time I believed them, but I’m not sure if that’s true. I’ve seen a hot-tempered bully mentality in other cities throughout the country. Of course this is not the rule, and is surely not even the majority, but the frequency is nonetheless alarming
Many Chinese think of America as a violent place, and it is in some respects. Perhaps if more people had guns in China people would think more before getting into a fist fight. However, that logic seems thin. I’ve seen lots of people get into arguments on the NYC subway, and I can’t remember a single incident when more than one punch was thrown, and I don’t think this restraint reflected a fear that the someone might be armed. So why do Chinese arguments have a tendency to escalate, and the targets of anger so often are the weak?
Is it something in the culture, or does the eagerness to fight reflect an anger in society–a deep bitterness looking for a channel to escape? I’m tempted to draw a conclusion about resentment about openness, or freedom, but just because the explanation somehow makes sense to me, doesn’t mean it’s grounded in reality. Maybe I’m drawing conclusions from nothing.
nanheyangrouchuan responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 2:12 am →
Bullying is about power and in China people often have a feeling of powerlessness, that is why weak targets are chosen. Also, many Chinese may feel a sense of not having achieved the dream promised to them by economic growth. A new domestic car, washer/dryer and home theater is nice in the short run but that shine tarnishes quickly, especially when local bosses continue to do incredibly well doing nothing more than waking up in the morning.
Falen responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 4:25 am →
Nice trolling… as if you don’t see fist fights in the bar and drive-by shooting in the middle of Bronx. Let’s not even start talking about kids shooting up schools in Suberbia, USA…
Hmmm, wonder why that is? I HONESTLY can NOT fathom why, but I can insinuate something baseless about culture though…
Jeremiah responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 6:44 am →
Josh,
You’re not alone in your observations. I’ve noticed the same thing: more incidents where arguments become fisticuffs, and fisticuffs escalating into full-on brawls. By way of example, I remember a time when if a foreigner got into a bar fight with some local Chinese, it was news on the laowai gossip circuit for weeks. Now, such things are depressingly routine.
The most tragic case I’ve seen roccurred right outside my window (which faces the police station) a month ago: A man was beating (and I mean going to town Ike-Turner-on- a-2-day-coke-binge’ style) his girlfriend IN FRONT OF THE POLICE STATION and about 20 witnesses. Nobody stopped him nor went in and got the cops, who anyway didn’t seem anxious to rush outside and help, while this thug took his grilfriend’s face and smashed it repeatedly into the hood of a car until he got bored of that and simply threw her to the ground and began kicking her now bloody head repeatedly.
I leaned out the window and shouted…and then got my camera (which usually does the trick.) That got everybody’s attention. One of the crowd leaned forward and finally said, “You should stop, a lao wai is taking pictures.” Then someone got the police, 20 minutes after the whole thing started.
I’m not saying such cases are typical, nor, like you, do I have anything more than anecdotal evidence, but there is clearly something going on here.
I actually agree somewhat with NHYRC. I think there is a growing sense that society is somehow ‘unfair,’ and there is a segment of the population that is very frustrated by that. Sometimes this causes people to lash out in anger especially because there are so few options at the disposal of the laobaixing to redress wrongs.
Finally, at the risk of essentializing, I wonder too if mianzi plays a role in the escalation of such incidents. China is a macho culture. Looking at this phenomenon from another perspective, male pride/mianzi could make backing down difficult, especially if its clear that one is in the wrong, and even more so when the other person is clearly from a lower echelon of the socio-economic food chain. The only recourse in this case seems to be: bluster and, sadly in certain incidents, physical force.
None of this, I should add, is specific to China, but this is certainly something to keep an eye on.
Just my 2 cents. Another great post, Josh. Keep them coming.
Larry responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 6:45 am →
Do you find it interesting that the crowds gathered usually just watch, and not help protecting the victim ?
nanheyangrouchuan responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 8:52 am →
@Jeremiah,
Wow, someone agrees with me! Some of this abuse might not be directed at the source of anger for the laobaixing (such as wife or elderly beating) but they are either the easiest conduit in which to vent or a small error on their part happens to be the final straw for that individual. He has been taking abuse/stare downs from local jabba the hutts and their toadies. The internet is rife with stories about how foreigners look down on chinese men and how chinese girls prefer chinese men (and even if they say they don’t, we are the forbidden fruit).
As to why chinese crowds love to watch these scenes (including traffic accidents)? Well, take a look at the status of charity in China. Jackie Chan is so ashamed that he donates all of his restaurant profits to charity.
Also, chinese culture is just plain primitive and broken.
I’ve been repeatedly put down for alluding to the Boxer Rebellion in modern times but I tell you what, there are alot of parallels.
Bobby responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 9:33 am →
@nanheyangrouchuan
Have you ever actually lived in China? Not trying to pick a fight, just curious.
Ernie responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 11:38 am →
Josh was correct not to get involved in the Chengdu beat down, despite the visions and self-recriminations that will haunt him forever.
Two aphorisms for China scuffling:
1. Chinese guys who fight man to man are rarer than pandas. The rest, however, take limitless satisfaction of their honor in phoning ten of their friends and blindsiding you, then pummeling your unconscious form for half an hour.
2. The Chinese have a self-granted right to citizen’s arrest of foreigners they feel are causing trouble, and will take your protest at their unlawful attempt to arrest as further evidence you need arresting. Any Chinese within a half a kilometer of the scene will drop a plate of hot jiaozi to come and watch/participate in the arrest, and the ensuing time-consuming, yet anticlimactic police drama.
Josh responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 12:02 pm →
@Ernie:
“self-recriminations that will haunt him forever”?
I feel bad, but I don’t feel like there was anything I could have done.
John Guise responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 12:41 pm →
Hey Josh
Another excellent post. I agree with you I don’t know why this happens. I guess I’d attribute it to bully cultural as well, but I wonder if hierarchy plays a role as well. I have discussed with Chinese colleagues about the environment of Chinese companies and they have told me the culture is such that one kicks the work they don’t want to handle down to the person below them until it reaches the very bottom of the company where that person can’t kick it down so they have to do it. I wonder if the same is true of daily life — you take your anger out on those who can’t fight back.
Probably the most common form of abuse I see is people who are working class or even migrant workers and would never think of challenging someone on the street walk into a restaurant and start barking orders at a waitress just because they are the customer and therefore they are God.
J.
nanheyangrouchuan responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 1:53 pm →
@Bobby
I get that question frequently. Have you seen my blog? The first picture is from an actual Tibetan Buddhist temple near the NW corner of the inside of Xian’s wall. The most popular hostel in Xian is behind the south gate.
You can walk from the Hangzhou train station straight to West Lake, passing Carrefour and McDs on the left. Take a left at the Starbucks that is directly at the end of the road and you’ll find a couple of night clubs that back packers and locals frequent and a nice hostel in the back.
There is a great DongBei restaurant across the street from the Shanghai main library, which is also a stop on Line 1. There is also a Brazilian restaurant there.
Taco Popo? Melrose Pizza? Kiwi Pete? Is that enough?
nichtich responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 3:12 pm →
OK, I’m Chinese, and I’ll try to explain that.
Fist fighting on streets is not about honor or anger so to speak. I think the sence of power is more relevent here. As you already noticed, fist fights rarely come when two men fight each other evenly. It’s more like a group of men beating one or a man beat women/elderly or even a group of girls beat another girl. Why is that? It shows power. It means “I’m without honor, I don’t play fair”, which is more scary.
Common Chinese people, or the “laobaixing”, don’t have the tradition to stand up for one another. When they see some thugs beat someother man, they will watch it, and learns who’s the thug that you should avoid and what to do to avoid get caught by any thug, but not rise up against the thug.
Whether it’s unique to chinese or not, i don’t know. But I think it’s more or less common in country with dictatorship ruling. It’s all about power. Not only goverment have more power than people, some people have more than others. And on the lowest level of the power ladder, it needs constant demostrating to assure others your position.
b. cheng responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 4:50 pm →
great post and nichtich has an interesting take on it, but it still doesn’t explain the fact that Chinese love to fight with odds allowing them to go to town like LAPD on Rodney King. I’ve seen a number of such fights and some of the worst were the “terrace wars” between Shenhua and Inter fans in Shanghai. In most cases in the US where it is a group of people kicking the shit out of one person and the fight started relatively innocently, once the guy’s gotten a decent beatdown, at least one of the guys will convince the other 2 or 3 that enough is enough and they’ll walk away, however here, once a guy is on the ground, that seems to be where the fun starts and everyone will join in beating the person to within an inch of their life, thats just insane…
China Hearsay: China law, business, and economics commentary responds:
Posted: January 24th, 2008 at 8:51 pm →
[...] Josh, with his finger on the pulse of the community, states: "The common man in China is surprisingly mad, and I don’t know why." See the entire post here. [...]
FOARP responds:
Posted: January 25th, 2008 at 2:14 am →
Coming from the UK, which has its own history of mob violence, I was always amazed by the simple way in which I never saw people fight one-on-one in the way you might in the UK. The way in which people seem to take pride in the mere taking part in collective punishment seemed to be much more important than any display of strength. It is hard not to see the shadow of the cultural revolution in the often laughing crowds that gather to see someone take their licks.
Still and all, being on the receiving end of it (through no fault of my own) is quite a different experience. All the small-scale xenophobia you seem to spend all your time dealing with in China suddenly wells up, and you discover that there are people in China who genuinely hate foreigners, as well as others who are willing to go along with the crowd.
Is China a violent country? Not individually, in fact the average Chinese person is far less likely to do violence against a stranger than his or her British counterpart. However, once a crowd gathers a kind of mob mentality takes over, but this happens only very rarely, and one doesn’t have to be Chinese to see a certain kind of justice in a streetfull of people whaling on someone caught pick-pocketing.
Rebekah responds:
Posted: January 25th, 2008 at 3:23 pm →
Hmmm, good post! Very thought provoking. As a foreign woman, I am not accustomed to being man-handled. In my first month in Shanghai, I was accosted on the street in broad daylight by two men (I couldn’t speak any Chinese then so I didnt understand what the problem was). They physically restrained me and wouldn’t let me get away. Finally the police were called and it turns out they were accusing me of having stolen one of their cell phones. I got carted off the to police station in a police car and had to fill out a crap load of paper work. Finally my brother arrived at the station (very pissed off about what they had done to me). He speaks Chinese and roared a bit. Finally I was released. I still don’t know why the guys grabbed me. I had never seen them before and my cell phone was a crap piece of shit, so I can only assume it was some sort of scam and they were intending to drag me into an alley, except that too many people were around and it was broad daylight!
nanheyangrouchuan responds:
Posted: January 26th, 2008 at 4:05 am →
@FOARP
“Is China a violent country? Not individually, in fact the average Chinese person is far less likely to do violence against a stranger than his or her British counterpart.”
There have been studies regarding types of violence and ethnic groups. For example, whites are more prone to one on one violence, sometimes at unspeakable levels and the fact that most of the world’s serial killers, and the most prolific ones, tend to be white. Blacks tend more to group on group violence, forgot what was said about Latinos. What’s the word on violence in other N. Asian countries? S. Asian?
Chris Devonshire-Ellis responds:
Posted: January 26th, 2008 at 7:46 am →
I recall queing up at Immigration at Hong Kong after arriving from Shekou in Shenzhen. Behind me was a heavily pregnant Chinese woman and ahead a smartly dressed Chinese businessman. Then the queue next lane opened, and everyone made a dash. I ushered the pregant woman to the head of the queue so she got through first. The Chinese businessman was very pissed off and shouted at me “Why did you do that ? What makes you think she is better or more important than me?” He then swore at me in Cantonese. My only reply was “She’s a lady. You regrettably are not a Gentleman. And ladies, especially ones with child, always go first. Where are your manners?”
But I don’t think he understood any of that, and probably remained angry he had “lost face” by not being permitted to be first in the queue ahead of a pregnant woman the rest of the day. On such trivialities Chinese men lose face and it upsets them. Which is why they also never give way when driving cars, even when it makes patently good road traffic sense to do so. They’d rather sit there for 30 minutes having created a traffic backlog than give way to someone else and lose face.
What’s Behind the Anger of the Common Chinese Man? « One-Eyed Panda’s Journal responds:
Posted: January 26th, 2008 at 3:56 pm →
[...] the Anger of the Common Chinese Man? Jump to Comments Josh at Cup of Cha has a great piece on the anger of the common Chinese man especially the fist fights and beatings that you can sometimes see in the streets. This is usually [...]
nanheyangrouchuan responds:
Posted: January 27th, 2008 at 4:16 pm →
Maybe some of the laobaixiang’s anger in Shanghai comes from being beat up by Shanghai women. I’ve seen more than a few middle aged women kick a man’s ass in front of a crowd.
wdbox responds:
Posted: January 28th, 2008 at 9:11 am →
Josh,
Excellent post, however, I must beg to differ with you on several points.
Firstly, I would appreciate your defining the “common man.” Also, I have problems with
“bully mentality” being “pervasive” in China. My experiences indicate otherwise: Yes, whenever violence rears its ugly head, few if any, Chinese will voluntarily insert himself in harms way (is this not a common human trait?). This is, I believe, due to a lifetime of conditioning by the government to maintain order among several hundred millions of mostly illiterate people. The Chinese are taught to “get along” with one another and to not cause trouble. Can you, or I, begin to imagine a society of such massive size violently venting its rage?
“The common man in China is surprisingly mad, and I don’t know why. The stories that I told were only four, but I’ve seen similar, if less violent, situations frequently.”
What you have described here is “herd mentality” and it is a condition that afflicts every society. Violence will attract a crowd in any society. Violence, and the viewing of violence, are pleasurable! Violence ranks right up there with sex and food as the most pleasurable aspects of life. It’s a sad fact.
“Many Chinese think of America as a violent place, and it is in some respects. Perhaps if more people had guns in China people would think more before getting into a fist fight. However, that logic seems thin. I’ve seen lots of people get into arguments on the NYC subway, and I can’t remember a single incident when more than one punch was thrown, and I don’t think this restraint reflected a fear that the someone might be armed.”
Josh, America “IS” a violent place. America may be the “MOST” violent society on the planet. Guns are not the answer to solving SOCIAL PROBLEMS. Addressing your assertion that few fights escalate beyond one punch - you are correct. The reason is: this “ain’t” Hollywood! The guy that throws the first punch is more likely than not the winner. It’s that simple.
In my personal experiences here in Southwest China, I have taken a more hands on approach, if you will. On more than one occasion where there was violence toward women I have intervened and walked away without a punch being thrown. However, there may have been a down side to my action; in my haste to help these women, I may have unintentionally increased the severity of their beating after I left the scene. Intervention is not an option that I would not recommend to everyone but it is part of my fibre. I could not stand by and watch the physical abuse. Perhaps I have been lucky. I may not be lucky the next time.
At the time of occurrence, you analyzed your position and determined that the better course would be not to introduce yourself into the fray. A decision that cannot now be altered regardless the amount of reflection. You did what you thought was right at the time. Let it go.
“Is it something in the culture, or does the eagerness to fight reflect an anger in society–a deep bitterness looking for a channel to escape? I’m tempted to draw a conclusion about resentment about openness, or freedom, but just because the explanation somehow makes sense to me, doesn’t mean it’s grounded in reality. Maybe I’m drawing conclusions from nothing.”
I have found nothing in this society that indicates an “eagerness to fight”, in fact, contrarily.
Josh responds:
Posted: January 28th, 2008 at 10:34 pm →
@wdbox
It’s a reasonable analysis, but parts of it don’t really contradict what I said. It’s a bully mentality. Bullies back down in a fair fight, so it’s not surprising they didn’t fight you.
There is an eagerness to fight–when the odds are in a ‘tough’ guy’s favor. I’ve seen more guys being ‘held back’ from fights than actually fighting. But that tends to be when a guy is afraid someone might actually fight back.
It’s really good that you stepped in to fights, and I hope that your actions prevented further harm. Just be careful about what this means about your ‘fibre.’
P responds:
Posted: November 11th, 2008 at 8:21 pm →
wow. this whole article and most of the commentators are generalizing an incident to massive proportions as in actual fact many of you know little of China’s supposed ‘bully-mentality’ or mianzi. youve lived in China for 2 or 3 years and now you are all big shots about Chinese culture? get over yourselves. you are creating concepts and theories out of thin air to suit your own patronizing ideas about how China is so weird, and crazy, and barbaric that to witness a brawl there must be no other explanation than that the Chinese have warped minds and culture. i live in the uk and i have seen just as much of this kind of behaviour; ‘yob’ mentality, chav bullying, drunkards fighting and swearing at each other, etc. etc. but you dont see me creating an article about how it is an intrinsic part of British culture. why? because i realise that there are assholes all over the world and these situations happen because of that, but you cant seem to understand this, instead, the tone of this article and many of the comments here are one of being ethnic superior. do you really believe that the average person in China is going to resort to this type of behaviour when faced with a problem? you speak of China being the ‘land of the common man’ but in reality isnt this true in all parts of the world? i was told to “go back to your country” by an old, middle-class englishman but i wont generalise and brand all old, middle-class englishmen to be racist cunts. which seems to be your problem. you may not realise it but this article is an example of the type of ‘unconscious’ China bashing that appears in many blogs. try and think OBJECTIVELY before you put it to paper.